Buff Orpington Champ…
Matt Hemsley Interview
Matt, congratulations on your big wins at both the Federation and National shows. Remind us of them here…
Thanks! I still can’t quite believe it. It’s been a dream of mine for a while now to get my birds to standard at which I could show them at top level, and it’s not been easy juggling the birds around a young family and running a business being self-employed. It’s my first time showing at both the Federation and the National, so I absolutely didn’t expect to do so well in my first year. I won both the pullet and the cockerel class at the Federation show with the cockerel going on the get breed champion. Then at the National I won both the pullet and the cockerel class at the breed club show, with a cockerel winning club show champion, another cockerel winning reserve champion and the pullet getting best opposite sex.
How long have you been breeding and keeping Orpingtons, the large Buffs in particular?
I had my fist trio of Buffs in my early teens in the late 90s. My friend’s Nan took us to the rare breeds sale at Chelford market and I managed to buy some. I had a few through my teens and showed them locally along with Dutch bantams, but I set up properly with them in 2008 after I had finished my farriery apprenticeship and moved back home.
I sourced hatching eggs locally and kept them as a hobby for eggs/pleasure. In 2017, I visited the High Peak’ show in my home town of Bakewell, and decided to get both the breeds I kept up to a standard (to which I could start to show them again), so I joined the breed clubs and visited the Fed that year, setting my sights on the prospect of showing there one day. I contacted Mark Watson, who was club secretary at the time and he put me in touch with Susie Page and Ian Davis who bred and showed Buffs as a partnership. I sold my existing stock to Susie to re-sell as backyard pets and purchased a quartet of birds from Ian, then another trio from him early the following year, and that’s where the journey started. Since then I’ve introduced different bloodlines from other breeders to create the line of birds that I’m currently showing. It may seem like I’ve popped out of nowhere recently on the show scene, but several years of work have gone into my birds, and several more before that in keeping and understanding the breed.
When I think of Buff Orpingtons, I am always reminded of the ones I regarded as ‘British’ with their very distinctive combs – that had wider gaps between the serrations, and often showed some leg. And also what became fashionable in the UK in the early 2000s – the Danish and Belgian imports with their smaller combs and rarely showing any leg, only toes visible below the thigh feather. Does that play on your mind, and where would you regard your stock in all of that?
From what I can gather there has historically always been a big difference in “type” and standards between the Buffs and the other colours of Orpington, hence the separate breed club for the Buffs for over 125 years. If you put them next to each other, the outline of their side profiles are so different in some cases that they could almost be separate breeds, especially the bantams. As long as I’ve been keeping them the shorter-legged/heavier-feathered “modern” type from Continental breeding has been the desired type. I’ve seen pictures from the archives in the yearbooks of the old fashioned type. Those birds would look very out of place in the show pens now. I suppose there will always be trends in type in any breed/animal that will change with opinion and time.
Regarding my own stock, they are definitely of Continental ancestry, mostly German and Danish, with the pullets having the dark feather down at the base of the feathers on the back of their heads. The first question people ask is “whose line are they?” But they are a line I have created from different stock I have obtained over the course of a few years.
Currently the combs on my males are perhaps slightly larger than those on the front of the yearbook over recent years, but the leg length is comparable. It’s been hard breeding over the last few years from a printed “breed standard” in a club yearbook, as it’s all just words with nothing to visualise and different people can perceive different things from a written description. With a lack of shows to visit and compare my birds in recent years, the pictures in the yearbook are all I’ve had to breed towards. I do get variation in type with my birds as does any breeder, and that’s why I entered three males in the National. They were all slightly different in type, one having more of a rounded front, another broader but slightly leggier and lighter in colour, the other more heavily feathered across the saddle and darker in shade of colour.
As you know, keepers come and go, but your wins recently have inspired people to once again fall in love with the beautiful ‘Buff.’ At any large show, what would numbers would you hope for as competition in each class?
Yes they do seem to be a firm favourite with people, whenever I get asked what I keep and tell people, their response is always “oh I love those!” At a large show as with any show, the more the better – not only to support the show and promote the breed but it’s not a competition without any competition! Obviously in 2024, as with all the breeds, the numbers at the shows were lower at the beginning of the year, as it was unsure whether the two “classics” would even happen again after bird flu. But when they were announced with such early dates in the calendar, I just don’t think people had geared up for breeding for them and, if they had, the large fowl stood little chance of being mature.
The shows will also have taken a big hit from the restrictions placed on Irish exhibitors post Brexit. I was pleased to see a class of eight large fowl pullets at the National. And although the numbers in the classes have been generally down, the quality of the birds shown was still high. I know from chatting to other breeders at the shows that there are other quality birds around (that haven’t been shown last year) so hopefully the success of the Fed and the National in 2024 will inspire people to breed for those shows this year, and then hopefully the entry numbers will be higher
With the recent shows, were your winners bred this year or last year?
All of my birds at the National and the Federation were 2024 birds. I managed to hatch four Buff Orpingtons on 5th February (one male and three females), which left me with a choice of one cockerel with the Federation in mind. Luckily he was correct and I was happy with him, the pullet that won at both shows was also from that batch. However, the cockerel that won the National was hatched a month later in March and is from different parents.
In a standard year, when would you look to put together breeding pens and what is your approach in terms of male to females, the kind of coop, feed, litter, access to grass etc?
From speaking to exhibitors [when I visited the Fed in 2018], I realised I needed to try and hatch as early in the year as possible. It took me a year or two to realise just exactly how to try and make that happen – with the use of lights etc from the back end of the year before to keep them laying well and the males fertile. Last year getting some out in Feb is the earliest I’ve managed it. three years ago it was July before I managed to get any out due to fertility problems.
Ive tried all ways of putting breeding pens together, from leaving trios/quartets together, to pair breeding, to having individual pens of females and moving a male around between them each day. I’ve had success with the latter as it keeps the males interested and stops him from being able to “marry up” with just his favourite female if left with a group. Also then I know the exact parentage of chicks from that pen.
My main shed is an old, long, stone-built, lean-to-style cow shippon with a tin roof, originally for rearing calves, and complete with old hay racks, trough feeders and wooden boskins that are about eight feet wide and 35 feet long, split into four pens that are all accessible from one end (so you have to walk through each one and back again). These double up as both breeding pens then as young stock rearing pens. I have banks of hutches and cock boxes for the Dutch bantams in each pen on the walls. To utilise the floor space, the end pen is the largest and has access to free range out onto a yard with grassy areas. I bed them on wood shavings and feed layers pellets and wheat to the adults and growers pellets to the young stock. This year I’ve built a large game rearing style pen on grass that has some smaller runs in it – with the intention of getting my Dutch pullets fitter for the shows. I also have a couple of pens in an old stable. All rented from a local farmer as I’m not lucky enough to have my own land.
The Orpington often gets flack in articles, citing it as ‘not a very good layer these days!’ Is this assertion fair and how many eggs would you typically get from a large Buff per annum?
I’ve found Buff Orpington pullets to be great layers through their first winter, even without the use of lights. They are much less of a dual purpose egg laying/table bird these days unlike they were originally intended, and are now bred much more for their appearance in the show pens. It can be a bit all or nothing regarding laying. I’m currently getting 4/5 eggs a day from 6 pullets. They do tend to stop for a period, as do all breeds in the summer. Around the moult I find can be slow to get going again. I’m not really sure of numbers p/a
Buff in any breed is difficult to get right. What are the main challenges in terms of breeding for a solid Buff colour?
I select birds for my breeding pens that are as evenly uniform in shade as possible. I do get variation in colour and birds with darker or lighter neck hackles compared to their body colour, but try not to use them. I try to pair a darker buff to a lighter buff to aim to keep them even. Two lighter birds put together are at risk of producing the odd white feather in the wings which can be a problem in the breed. I won’t breed from birds with any white in the wing or any darker/black feathers in the tail, again another common problem. And try to use birds that have the buff colour on the quill of the wing feathers that extends as far down the shaft of the feather as possible. I bought a male a few years ago from good lines that appeared correct but all his offspring had wings full of white and some even had white lacing in the saddle feathers, so he had to go and I had to source a different cockerel to bring in new blood.
Broody hens or incubators (if so which type)?
I hardly dare say to someone who campaigns for and promotes the broody hen, but I will only use incubators. I just don’t trust a broody… I’ve had it in the past where they come off for whatever reason and everything is lost. The time of year that I need to hatch and the time window that I have, means I need to try and ensure everything goes as smoothy as it can. My incubators are all Brinsea. I’ve got an ovation 56 with the humidity pump, which is fantastic and two of the older octagon 20s that I tend to use more as hatchers these days.
I tend to fill the ovation and one of the octagons then after candling expect to have had a percentage of empty eggs, running the fertile ones on for the remainder of the time in the ovation. Then I move them to compartments in the octagons for hatching and toe punch the chicks as I take them out of the compartments, so I know which breeding pens/parentage they are from.
I vaccinate all my chicks for Marek’s disease after I had a problem with it about six years ago (must have bought birds in carrying it). I’ve not had a problem with it since, but I daren’t stop doing it. The cost of this limits me to three hatches, possibly four depending if I’ve got what I feel I need from each breed/pen (more so in the Dutch as I’ve got six colours of those). Hatching by incubator makes this much easier as the chicks have to be injected at day old.
What are some of the frustrations of a breeding season for the large Orp breeder?
The first and obvious one is the need to get them out early in the year, so all the extra effort that comes with making that happen. Another is that the time of year when birds need to be in the breeding pens is also still within the winter showing season, so a choice needs to be made whether to breed from an individual bird or show it. I find I have to trim the whole back end from feathers on all breeding birds to maximise fertility, but then they don’t look as nice. They’re not the hardiest of breeds and can be quite sensitive to cold spells in the weather, so fertility and egg production can soon drop in cold temperatures which is not ideal when trying to hatch from January-April. I’ve been asked quite a lot at the shows whether I use AI to help them breed, which I think is common in Orpingtons in other countries, but it’s not something I’ve tried. I just get the birds as fit as possible, trim their back ends, have the lights on to boost egg production and fertility and they have managed it!
Is it difficult to achieve size in the large Buffs and how long do they need to mature in order to properly assess them?
After a while yes, as with all breeds line-breeding can reduce birds in size and the introduction of new blood can bring increased size and vigour. The birds I am currently showing are a mix of lines, and I believe that is what has given them their size, which is something the judges have commented on at shows. Obviously introducing new blood to a line can come with its risks and in some case ruin them. I think I have been lucky that mixing lines has improved my birds and created what I now have.
What progress are you pleased with that you’ve made personally in the breeds you keep?
I’m obviously pleased to have got the results I have with the Buff Orpingtons, especially from a line that I have created (although credit must also go to the breeders who have put the work into the lines that I have purchased in the past).
I’m also please with my Cuckoo Dutch bantams. They’ve come a long way since I started with them, although they are still a little on the big side, which is something I’m working on. I’ve had some really good feedback/comments from judges and other club members, and they’ve done well when I’ve shown them with a cockerel getting best AOC standard colour and best opp sex at the Fed, and a pullet getting best AOC standard colour and best cuckoo at the National.
How closely related is your stock and do you keep strict records in terms of breeding birds and their offspring?
As with most people’s show stock they are all fairly closely related, not helped by the fact I had a fox wipe out all my adult breeding stock meaning I lost a bloodline, so afterwards was left with just my young stock to rear. I have some that are a higher percentage of certain lines and vice versa. Yes I keep records of all my stock and which breeding pens they are from via the toe punching system, and later on by the use of coloured leg rings so I can see quickly and easily what’s what as they grow.
What is your approach to show preparation – presumably getting such large and feathery specimens ready for show takes some planning?
I condition them with a varied high protein diet from several weeks before the show. I separate them into individual pens to try and preserve them and reduce feather damage. I keep them as clean as possible and don’t allow them to get dirty in the first place. I keep them mainly inside as direct sunlight can ‘bleach’ and lighten the feather colour. Then actual show prep is similar to any other breed. I like to bath them two days before a show. My new purchase of a dog grooming dryer has been a game changer for speeding up the drying process, then the day before a show I will trim and file their beaks, clean the scales on their legs with a tooth pick and put some baby oil on their combs etc to be soaking in. I like to give the Orpingtons another good blast with the dryer the night before or even the morning of an show to “puff them up.”
.What would be an average show team for you in a normal year?
I only really showed them lightly before Covid/Bird flu, the last show I did in 2020 I took a trio and a cockerel. This year I took two Buff Orpingtons and four Dutch to the Fed, and four Buff Orpingtons and five Dutch to the National. With them being such big birds they take a bit of time bathing and drying them – also the logistics of fitting them all into the car, and then getting them from the car into the hall at he other end. I think four to five large fowl Orpingtons is probably enough work to take to a show.
Orpingtons are not an easy breed. Can you describe some of the frustrations experienced in recent times?
Obviously the biggest frustration of recent times for all poultry keepers has been bird flu and the logistics of the dreaded “flockdowns,” particularly anyone with the large breeds will know just how hard that was. We had an actual case of AI in our village which was stressful to say the least. I just made sure everything was sparrow proof, used foot dips and hand gels etc and rode it out. I even had birds housed in my mum’s horse trailer!
Personally, other problems that I’ve had to overcome with my breeding have been fertility issues, bad combs, weak hearts leading to heart attacks in the males (which I’ve now hopefully managed to breed out), and the Marek’s disease, as mentioned earlier.
Who inspires you to breed quality stock and bench them to such a high standard?
The people who inspire me are the people who’ve managed to get to the top of their game, and in some cases several times. In the Buff Orpington showing world these are people such as Richard Bett, David Pownall and Ian Davis; their birds have been on the front covers of the club yearbooks over the years, their names are on the trophies multiple times and they are now judging the breed at the highest level. They know the breed inside out and to do well showing under them and get positive feedback on my birds from them means a lot.
Would you say Orpington bantams (particularly Whites and Buffs) are getting closer to what they should be?
Simon Patel has done a sterling job at recreating the White bantams to a level at which they can strongly compete against the Blues and Blacks, as proven by the results from the National and Federation this year, with Whites from his lines winning the Orpington club show champion at the Fed, also best opposite size at the National.
The Buff bantams are not yet to the same type as the other standard colours, and as mentioned earlier are almost like a different breed in appearance. Having not kept Buff bantams properly and not currently having any, I’m not up on the ‘fine tuning’ off them. There were some in the trio class at the Fed that caught my eye, and upon talking to the breeder found he had crossed some large fowl into them several generations back to improve type, which in my opinion has certainly worked. Unfortunately, there isn’t another colour that can be crossed into Buff to improve type without detriment as can be done with some of the other colours.
When do you begin assessing growing stock and how many do you rear on?
My birds seem to be mature at seven to eight months old. I’m constantly assessing them as they grow from being fully feathered, as I’m limited on space. I grow all the females on but the males are assessed as they grow mainly on their heads/combs, on any undesirable traits such as white/black feathers, and then as they grow, on body shape, size and width. I try to end up with a couple from each pen to keep my gene pool broad.
I try to grow on around a dozen of each sex, but then reduce the cockerels down to around five to six to grow on to maturity.
Do you get many requests for stock nowadays?
YES! I’ve been inundated with requests to buy stock, but as mentioned earlier I’m limited on space so don’t hatch loads, therefore don’t have that much spare to sell. I’ve sold the odd one or two to showing people this time. My goddaughters wanted some pullets this year so they had what I had spare. I’ve also kept back what I need for breeding after having lost their parents to the fox
When will the 2025 breeding season begin for you, or will it start in late 2024?
I already have chicks (February ’25)! The females are laying well and the eggs are of a respectable size. The lights have been on in the sheds in the evenings. I use a mixture of solar lights and rechargeable work lights as I have no power there. The solar lights come on automatically as it drops dark, then I put the work lights on when I finish work. Not very natural but it works all the same. I was planning to hatch Jan to April, but now the dates are set for the two big shows a bit later in the year I will move that back slightly.
How long do you believe in saving potential hatching eggs before setting?
A couple of weeks, ideally. I start saving them again immediately after I have set the incubator (incase we get a cold spell and they drop egg production). I write the date on them and turn them daily, and then fill the incubator with the freshest eggs. I’ve had eggs up to three weeks old hatch in the past.
Have you received many comments and congratulations on your big wins?
Yes, I’ve had many comments and congratulations both at the shows and afterwards. I had a chat with the judges after both the Fed and the National, and as I said earlier, their comments and feedback mean a lot and will hopefully help me to improve my birds in the future. Ive had good feedback from other club members who were at the shows, David Pownall being one of them. He told me what he liked about my birds and I always feel like I learn something after a chat with him. I’ve bought birds from him in the past and very much value his opinion. Ian Allonby was very complimentary when I collected my trophy, commenting what a nice dark shade off Buff my Best of Breed cockerel was, warning that it’s very hard to get back if allowed to go too light, which is something I’ve firmly noted.
I also had a top judge tell me at the National that my winning cockerel was, “just a pile of feathers with no type or class to it!” that’s showing for you, it’s just one person’s opinion on the day and different judges are going to have preferences to variations in type of a particular breed. I just thought to myself lucky he wasn’t judging my class on the day, he’s entitled to his opinion, and had been heard to be complimentary of my winning pullet earlier in the day.
What would you say to any prospective future keepers of Orpingtons?
Firstly, get some! Orpingtons are such an attractive and docile breed, in all colours, not the easiest but very rewarding. Secondly, join the breed club (of any breed that you choose to keep). It supports the breed and opens up to you a wealth of advice and knowledge from the breed standard to contacts/directory of breeders of whom to obtain stock from, who in turn become a fountain of knowledge for you to ask for advice and learn from, especially if you want to go down the showing route. Don’t be afraid to ask other members questions as many have being doing it for a long time, and there won’t be much about the breed that they don’t know. Take on board what they tell you and try and put it into practice with your breeding. An example of this is at a show last January, the judge told me afterwards to put a particular cockerel he had judged into a breeding pen with a darker pullet to improve colour, so thats what I did and the result of that was the cockerel that won club show champion at the National!
Moving forward the next challenge for me is to try and keep my birds to a high standard and see if I can show them with success in the future. If I can’t, I’m just happy to have achieved what I have with them this year!
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